Renovating a Haver Style home.

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chinablue1
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Renovating a Haver Style home.

Postby chinablue1 » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:45 am

I currently live in the Historic Rancho Venutura pocket of homes and have been slowly up dating the interior of my home I am however, frustrated by the very points mentioned in Hector Acuna'z article about the surrounding neighborhood. I am very fearful that although some of us realize the current value of these homes and the potential of the neighborhood and soaring values all over the valley, that our homes will not be treated as valuable and increase like other areas because of the surrounding low income rentals and trailer park. When folks visit they will not see the beautiful homes but will see the debris, the low income rentals,the trailer park and the lack of respect by some of the residents toward their property and the property of others. Palm Lane for instance is one of the most historic and potentially one of the most beautiful streets in the city. Have you seen the area between 44th street and 40th street? It is so sad to see how it has become so mistreated and undervalued by it's residents. I purchased my home here so that I could be part of preserving an area worth preserving but I am starting to feel like maybe it is only people like Hector and my self who really care about the neighborhood and it's past, present and future. I have inquired to the City about their assistance and although we are one of the districts slated for renewal it seems that when the city is called about a public works issue or and ordinance issue, they are less than enthusiastic in their response. Why has this pocket of homes not been designated historic already? Based on what we know there should be a distinction between our area and the rest of Rancho Ventura. Does anyone know of a way that we could revive and renew this neighbor hood with the city's help with revitalization that they say is available?

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Fifilynn
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Postby Fifilynn » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:14 am

Hi!
I think that a bunch of you in 'Town & Country Manor should approach the historic preservation office in Phoenix with the idea of designating the pocket of homes. You can point to Scottsdale, who recently designated Town & Country Scottsdale....The houses were built with identical elevations by the same builder and architect.
If you can get enough people together, go to the Phoenix historic Preservation Office website and start the process of asking for a nomination:
http://www.ci.phoenix.az.us/HISTORIC/designat.pdf

You can go directly to the city of Scottsdale's website to obtain information about Town and Country Scottsdale...which should give you some background on the houses, builder, architect, etc.:
http://eservices.scottsdaleaz.gov/plann ... P_2004.pdf

Hope that gets you started in the right direction. If you can get the city to recognize the significance of the neighborhood, you will likely be eligible for available grants and tax incentives.

I think these homes already have a following. I think a little attention from the city would make these homes even more desireable.
Search our site for mid-century modern (Haver, Beadle, Allied, etc) & historic homes.

Twins & Co. Realty
Jennifer Hibbard, P.C.
OWNER, ABR, CDPE, ECO BROKER, GRI, SFR, B.S. MARKETING
http://www.TwinsAndCompany.com
Jennifer@TwinsAndCompany.com

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hectoracuna
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Making a diff

Postby hectoracuna » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:26 am

Welcome a-board Chinablue!

Keep your chin up, we're going to make a difference here in Rancho ventura.

We've been in touch with the RA Neighborhod Assc. and have spoken with the pesident David Nance about some of the blight issues. Below is a recent letter I sent him and we're trying to set up a meeting at the afflicted area to discuss. Maybe this Saturday, your're welcome to join us.

(letter sent via e-mail)

Our concern is not an issue over an alley, but rather 41st street
itself. Between Palm Lane and past Granada the abandoned irrigation
ditch consumes half the width of 41st Street, creating a bottleneck of
sorts where 41st street meets Palm. The heavy volume from the two gates at the apartment complex generate more traffic than a "half-street" can handle. Most times it is difficult to fit two cars side-by side on that section of road, forcing the south-bound vehicle to ride on the dirt berm of the irrigation ditch. This creates several hazards: One is a
cloud out dust that already spills onto the street so that every time a
car passes dust is thrown about.  Second is that there is no safe zone
for pedestrians, forcing walkers-by to step into the glass-and-trash
laden ditch. Third is the ditches attraction to children, they gather
and play amongst the trash creating more dangerous situations. Trash in the ditch ranges from discarded tires, car parts, bottles, cans, and as
of yesterday a mattress. Lastly is the constant growth of weeds which
have reached 4 to 5 feet during growth seasons then dries and breaks
up, combines with the trash and you get a blight issue. Keep in mind
this is all on 41st Street.

I believe our group of neighbors is looking to be proactive in a finding
a resolution. If the apartment complex is going to have two exits open
to that street (41st), then we need to figure out a way to finish the
street to it's full width and sidewalk in order for it to handle that
volume of traffic. Another option would be to redirect the traffic to
empty on Almeira (which has no bottleneck issue) then to access
McDowell. The apartment complex already has an access exit on 40th
Street, so we're not sure why a double exit is need on such a narrow
street as 41st.

We're hoping that the association's experience will be helpful in
dealing with our issues down here. Our overall incentive is to improve
the livability of this area in order to attract like-minded residents
and also to extend the success of your association's work to the
furthest boundaries of the neighborhood. Thanks for your help David

--Hector

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hectoracuna
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Postby hectoracuna » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:47 am

I too have read the proposal to the City of Scottsdale and find that Rancho Ventura has all the attributes described. Seeking historical designation is on the list.

--H

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Tabletoo
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Code violations?

Postby Tabletoo » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:06 pm

One tool that you can use could be code enforcement. A few years ago someone in my neighborhood (I don't know who for sure - actually I think it was a group of residents and developers) started complaining to the City of Phoenix about code violations. It was rather annoying to some. And it is not an instant process. But it works.

Maybe you should report the problem with dust to the city. Dust is a big issue right now with the region trying to meet clean air guidelines. Apparently the city does not normally go looking for code violations but they are obligated to investigate any that are reported.

I hesitate to suggest reporting code violations since it obviously has the capability to really upset and damage neighborly relations! But it can be a useful tool.

Here is a link to City of Phoenix Neighborhood Preservation Ordinance and Code Enforcement Policy

http://phoenix.gov//NBHDPGMS/nghordin.html
- Kathy

chinablue1
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Renovating a Haver Home in Rancho Ventura

Postby chinablue1 » Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:16 pm

I am delighted that so many of you are like minded. It makes me feel so much better that my efforts are being duplicated in a variety of ways in this special pocket of homes.
I am familiar with the Scottsdale designation. I am also under the impression that those homes were considerably newer than ours. Late 1970's?? If anything, it should make our case for designation so much more appealing to the City of Phoenix.
Regarding, 41st street. You are right , it will once again turn into a dust bowl and fire hazard in the spring when the weeds come back. There are many issues with the street but mainly the one that was mentioned regarding the traffic flow. It would be my wish that the street be closed off to the apartment residents as they already have exits onto 40th street. This could be accomplished with a decorative block wall reflecting the flavor of our neighborhood, that would stretch from the bottom of41st and the corner of the complex, to the corner of 41st and Palm Lane. Thus eliminating the view of the trailer park too. This wall would have no pass throughs or walk ways. Simply greenery. This option would cut off the access to our neighborhood to unwanted pedestrian and vehicular traffic. It would do away with the parked vehicles and loitering on the lower end of the street by the complex. It would do away with the littering and dumping . It could be used as a walk space for the residents that might be considered, for a change, well lit and safe for walking our pets in this area.
If this was to happen in such a way that it created a welcoming view for the neighbors in the area it might encourage more neighbors to consider doing more to preserve their beautiful homes. In my opinion it would also encourage those who would like to live here to keep a watch on us for availability.It would also protect our values. Our homes should be rising in price right along with the rest of the valley but because of our current circumstances,I am under the impression, they are not .
lastly, what time and where is the meeting on Saturday the 10th?

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hectoracuna
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Postby hectoracuna » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:41 pm

Chinablue1. I will let you know when Mr. Nance wants to meet.

Tabletoo. Thanks for the tips and links. Agreed that some neighbors may be put off by someone suggesting they keep the neighborhood clean-er. But these regulations were not put on the books to harass residents but rather as a tool to be used in the preservation of a clean living environment, for all. I'm sorry but the unregistered cars and the overgrown yards, and parking on dirt driveways is regulated by city code, if a resident has an issue with that, I might suggest, well, another city? Oops, sorry, I'm being a jerk But there's a limit to my patience.

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modernenthusiast
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don't believe the hype

Postby modernenthusiast » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:21 am

Historic preservation is not all that it is cracked up to be.

I hope someone can provide some more insight into this topic for me then if I have become jaded because I have found mostly negatives in terms of historical designation. I own two homes in the Coronado District and am involved in the Coronado Neighborhood Association. Historical designation has been a hassle. All of the listed problems and concerns I read regarding alleys or garbage or sewers have resources available through neighborhood services, not historical preservation.

Whether or not your home is historic does not give you more pull in terms of making your neighborhood cleaner or more safe. And no one really wants to help you fix up your house- that is such a fallacy.

This designation simply makes it harder to change home styles and provides small grants when neighborhoods are pushy enough and have enough political punch or historic relevence regarding poverty or some other social issue to warrant monies. And these monies are available for such things as local community centers or parks.- not your house. You also have the neighborhood association to "police" new businesses or changes in zoning rights such as stores obtaining liquor licenses that want to locate in the neighborhood. If someone has busted out windows or garbage in the street, neighborhood services is available for all of those issues in any neighborhood in the city (of Phoenix- I don't know Scotssdale, Mesa, etc.) Historic designation is meaningless.

If you are one to want to preserve lets say the architectural style of your Haver home, then historic preservation would be the way to go. When a neighborhood is historic, you cannot change the window styles, the materials, NO STUCCO (which may be worth the hassle so no one can stucco their home ever again), no additions that do not compliment the original style, something a nighbor might think is NOT historical...etc (among a long list of things and some things the historic office deems would not be appropriate for the neighborhood)...without going through a huge hearing and getting a certificate of appropriateness or no effect to build or alter your home in any way. This is a lengthy process before you can even apply for a permit from the city- I have waited about 6 weeks average before obtaining a certificate to even be able to apply for a permit. That then takes another 3-5 months right now. And these are hearings so the public can protest your changes- which happens often when you have neighbors who are controlling or are nuts or are just weird. Renovations include such minor things as moving your gas water heater for example- if it is more than two feet and your home is designated historic, you need to obtain the infamous certificate of appropriateness before going to the city. Probably about 6 months.

And just imagine- A woman who calls herself Nighthawk and has a suit of armor standing on her front porch (this is an actual neighbor of mine) can come down and protest your desire to move your water heater to the other side of your house because she believes that you have a camera pointed at her 24 hours a day to prove that she abducts small children because she is really the witch from Hansel and Gretel- (in which case you simply send her an anonymous picture from google of the ariel photo of her home and some gingerbread cookies...which of course I would NEVER do :) ). These things happen constantly- SO much more often then one would think.

As for financial benefits- these are just simply unavailable and I don't care how much people rant and rave and swear they are obtainable- I have yet to see one person receive any money for their home. The exterior preservation assistance program is available if the city needs some of your property for a new street or access to a water line or some other desired access or property issue (easements). These are rare. They are also very small grants and do not cover work that would be over (I think) 90 days to complete so basically it would not cover anything major. Additions are not covered as the city usually needs access - it is called facade easement and is a limited fund.

Tax incentives are small and can be minutely beneficial- you might save a couple of hundred dollars if you are listed on the national historic register. Federal tax incentives are for buildings or places that produce income though. The heritage grant program is for buildings such as educational institutions- not for private residences. Then there is the low income housing incentive- you have to be below the poverty line- WELL below the poverty line to be eligible and they might build you a fence and paint the outside of your house. Other grants are available for community improvement, but are national and are competitve. If you have a lot of time on your hands or are a very involved soccer mom type with not much to do while the kids are at school, then applying for these community grants may be an option to fill your time. My taxes for my homes in Coronado were not much less then the home I have in Marlen Grove......Marlen Grove has nicer streets, better schools, and less rentals and I will pay a little more.

If one is concerned about their neighborhood, a neighborhood association, such as those in historic districts, can provide representation in front of the city- but anyone can go in front of the city. Any MoPho can get up there and give their spiel. Neighborhood associations just have a regularly scheduled time. Instead of historic preservation, I believe community involvement is just as effective, unless preserving the integrity of the architectural style of the 'hood is what is important to that particular community. Historic preservation can be a hassle and provides the city (and control freak neighbors) more avenues with which to control the property owner's ability to change or alter their property the way they see fit. It is like those associations they have in condos or newer gated communities- it is basically the neighbor police being able to say you didn't bring your recycling bin in 5 minutes after the truck was here!

There are really not many financial benefits and it ends up costing one more in historic hearings and fees, obtaining permits, etc. than any direct contribution to one's pocketbook or community improvement.

Historic preservation is just that- preserving the outside of homes so they look as they did when they were built. There is no neighborhood benefit in terms of more police involvement for crime, more trash pick up or slum lord penalty, city built parks or funding. Basically you can't paint your house without asking everyone in your neighborhood and the city if they like the color or not. Seriously. And you get to say you live in a historic district. Marlen Grove historic district doesn't sound all that great to me as a home owner in the neighborhood- I like just telling people about why I enjoy the particular type of architecture that I do and preserving my own home the way I like. I don't believe I should be able to tell someone else how to redo the environment they live in- but that is just my opinion.


The one good thing is that you do get to actively fight stucco in your neighborhood. That may be incentive enough.

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Mr. Natural
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Postby Mr. Natural » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:39 am

modernenthusiast wrote:...(in which case you simply send her an anonymous picture from google of the ariel photo of her home and some gingerbread cookies...which of course I would NEVER do ).


LOL.

I've done this before -- except I lit the bag of gingerbread cookies on fire, set it on their porch, rang the doorbell, and hauled ass outta there.

Nothing's worse than realizing you just stomped all over some tasty gingerbread cookies.

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Fifilynn
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Postby Fifilynn » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:01 pm

If you are one to want to preserve lets say the architectural style of your Haver home, then historic preservation would be the way to go. When a neighborhood is historic, you cannot change the window styles, the materials, NO STUCCO (which may be worth the hassle so no one can stucco their home ever again), no additions that do not compliment the original style, something a nighbor might think is NOT historical...etc (among a long list of things and some things the historic office deems would not be appropriate for the neighborhood)...without going through a huge hearing and getting a certificate of appropriateness or no effect to build or alter your home in any way.


I know several long-time owners in Coronado, but many of them have maintained the historical integrity of their homes, opting not to make major changes. It is my understanding that the historic designation for Town & Country Scottsdale is different in many ways from what you describe in Coronado. In fact, I know that a resident of Marlen Grove, local architect, has a high level of involvement in determining what type of improvements would be appropriate, given the contemporary nature of the architecture. The architecture of these homes differs from the architecture of the homes in Coronado. The fact is that Haver owners buy Havers to preserve them AND update them in a modern/contemporary fashion...this has been taken into consideration when adopting guidelines for the neighborhood. Also, Town & Country Scottsdale is already working on financial incentives for the residents.

I think you guys are on the right track! You have an active association and dedicated property owners...you'll start to see progress. Keep up the hard work!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Town & Country Scottsdale is the first historical MCM tract in the metro area.
Search our site for mid-century modern (Haver, Beadle, Allied, etc) & historic homes.

Twins & Co. Realty
Jennifer Hibbard, P.C.
OWNER, ABR, CDPE, ECO BROKER, GRI, SFR, B.S. MARKETING
http://www.TwinsAndCompany.com
Jennifer@TwinsAndCompany.com

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Fifilynn
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Postby Fifilynn » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:17 pm

The city of Scottsdale just published a 30 page document detailing the historical preservation guidelines for Town and Country Scottsdale. Westlake, Reed and Leskosky prepared the report.

THIS DOCUMENT IS DEFINITELY WORTH LOOKING AT. THERE ARE EVEN PHOTOS OF OTHER HAVER HOMES, INCLUDING SOME IN MARLEN GROVE (MR. NATURAL'S HOME IS EVEN PICTURED). I THINK THE GUIDELINES DON'T RESTRICT CREATIVITY AND ENCOURAGE OWNERS TO REALLY CONSIDER THE ARCHITECTURE WHEN MAKING ALTERATIONS.

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/historiczon ... ountry.pdf
Search our site for mid-century modern (Haver, Beadle, Allied, etc) & historic homes.

Twins & Co. Realty
Jennifer Hibbard, P.C.
OWNER, ABR, CDPE, ECO BROKER, GRI, SFR, B.S. MARKETING
http://www.TwinsAndCompany.com
Jennifer@TwinsAndCompany.com

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PixelPixie
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Postby PixelPixie » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:33 pm

Oh wow, there's a photo of a two-story Haver as being Not Appropriate! Rawk on!
Last edited by PixelPixie on Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PixelPixie
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Postby PixelPixie » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:36 pm

I found this document to be totally helpful! Gosh, I love the Interweb. Off to go write some fanmail....

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Haverphile
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Postby Haverphile » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:12 pm

Note that in the pdf file they say that Mr. Natural's screen wall hides the house elements - I would argue that the grapefruit tree hid the house's design elements - and that, with it being gone - you can see just how well the screen complements the original architecture.

Damn that's a phat casa.

Before:

Image

After:

Image


And it should be the homeowner's choice of how to remodel the house (*ahem* except for the 2nd story bastardization - that's one of the fugliest things I've ever seen). There are some very unique houses in Marlen Grove, including one of my favorites - codenamed the TV Dinner:

Image

The other house in Marlen Grove (the 2nd example of why "screens are bad") - is also a very nice home, with a very interesting carport/garage combo. I reject the notion that it "detracts" from the rest of the neighborhood. Part of the "coolness" of Marlen Grove is the diversity in the way the homes have been updated.

With excessively strict HOA's or other such restrictions, cool, unique, interesting remodels might not be possible...

/2 cents
Last edited by Haverphile on Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PixelPixie
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Postby PixelPixie » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:18 pm

Neither would such unique, interesting *cough* remodels like this:

Image


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