Modern Phoenix

About

Neighborhoods

Articles

Architects

Links

Message Boards

FAQ

Contact

Advertise

Home


Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Swap information about modern living in the Valley of the Sun. Introduce yourself, ask a question, or announce events to modern homeowners & enthusiasts here.

Moderators: PixelPixie, matthew

Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby JC on Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm

http://southwest.construction.com/featu ... over_6.asp

Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Phoenix may be succeeding in bringing in-fill development to downtown, but in this architect’s opinion, we may be in danger of too much success at the expense of having a recognizable Phoenix style.

By Linnea O’Dowd, LEED AP, Associate AIA
Phoenix is in danger. We are in danger of finally achieving an aesthetic many of us in the design community have longed for, an aesthetic built on the brilliant tenets of modernism. A lack of built history, no surviving historic vernacular, and an overabundance of cheap land and labor give local architects and designers an incredible array of design options, yet our reputation for cutting edge design continues to diminish.

Our Phoenix design aesthetic has become modern without meaning, not McMansion but McModern.

Exposed emotionless grey block, crumbling remnants of gabion walls, identical weathered steel and river rock accents: does anyone else notice the ubiquitousness of the various building materials, the loss of craftsmanship, the absence of inventiveness and imagination? We are missing the intimate detailing which made Modernism so incredibly radical and beautiful. For our desert modernism to go beyond style, we must stop denying why we build, we build for human expression, for ourselves and for our neighbors....

click link for full story^
Joel Contreras
Urban/ Modern Specialist
Home Smart
480-430-5939
http://www.myspace.com/jcportfolio
User avatar
JC
Is in the place to be
 
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:22 pm
Location: Camelview Village

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby DG on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:01 pm

100% in agreement with the article.
DG
Circle of Power
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:45 am
Location: phoenix

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby JC on Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:40 am

I kinda posted it for you DG!!
Joel Contreras
Urban/ Modern Specialist
Home Smart
480-430-5939
http://www.myspace.com/jcportfolio
User avatar
JC
Is in the place to be
 
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:22 pm
Location: Camelview Village

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby DG on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:38 pm

Thanks JC!
DG
Circle of Power
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:45 am
Location: phoenix

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby HooverDam on Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:29 am

From the article:
In Phoenix, we have no equivalent to the Portland bungalow; we have no true historic vernacular to draw upon.


Huh? Is the author not aware of the thousands upon thousands of Phoenix bungalows? Designed with deep porches to provide for summer time sleeping, and to shade the inside of the building.

Also:
From within the design community, we scoff at the Tuscan or Olde Worlde, for all its frills and ornamentation.


I don't scoff at the Tuscan garbage for that reason at all. I scoff at it because its trying to replicate a style built for one region of the world, and place it in an entirely different region. Its the fakery, not the ornamentation that I (and I think most folks) take issue with.

In fact, most modernism suffers from a lack of ornamentation. It gets bogged down in silly dogma and trying to be 'honest' (whatever that means) and ends up being bleak, under decorated, cold and awful. Look at older buildings, even relatively simple ones like the Lurhs Building (below) are beautiful because of their small decorative touches.
Image

Modernism's high ideals too often lead to under decorated, bleak, nasty garbage like we see all up and down the central spine.

I'm all for clean lines, open floor plans, environmentally sound design and many of the good tenants of modernism. But enough with this bashing of ornamentation. Enough of every modern building trying to stand out and scream "look at me!", while completely denying its neighborhood and breaking the flow of the city.

The more I think about it, the more we need to throw a lot of modernism (which leads to garbage like Gehry) in the trash. Not all of it of course, much of it is good, and should be loved. But we need to undo much of what modernism has done. We must stop denying of old lessons well learned, we need a new style that combines the old and the new. Can't we have clean lines and decorations? Buildings made with cutting edge materials that don't make people feel like they're in a bleak post apocalyptic future? While the best of modernism is fantastic, the worst of it seems far worse than the worst examples of any other style. Perhaps its only because bad examples of of bygone styles haven't stood the test of time and have been demolished, so we can't compare them to bland modern structures.

Anyway, I guess in some ways I'm agreeing with the article for the most part, but those two little sentences annoyed me.
HooverDam
Mad about Modern
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:41 pm

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby Corvid on Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:27 pm

As a local(Tucson) designer/fabricator of doors/cabinets and modernist furniture I think it all comes down to this: it's the end of the project and you could buy a great door or concrete table from guys like me(who really still make things) or you could buy some run of the mill crap and put the difference in your pocket. Greed wins this fight 95% of the time unless the architects have control of the spending.
Corvid
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:47 pm

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby azpreservation on Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:51 am

While searching for something else on the Web, I came across the following that talks about the modernist movement in general from http://www.citymayors.com/development/u ... ation.html

During the 1950s, 15.1 million new single-family homes were built. This affordable housing for returning war veterans and young workers helped fuel the nation’s industrial expansion. The less of their incomes American families paid for shelter, the more they could use to purchase the products manufactured by burgeoning factories, which in turn created more jobs and more economic expansion.

Low-cost government financing for post-war residential development did not come without restrictions. Developers had to follow strict design guidelines to qualify their projects for federal mortgage loans. Rather than the dense, mixed-use neighborhoods of the pre-war years, priority was now given to low-density, car-oriented development, where single-family homes were separated from shops and services. Function and price trumped beauty and style. The frequent result was sprawling subdivisions of nearly-identical, “cookie-cutter” houses along wide, treeless and sidewalk-free streets.

The National Historic Preservation Act was created in 1966 to help local governments save pre-World War II neighborhoods and architecturally or historically significant “landmark” buildings that were threatened by sprawl. A structure had to be at least 50 years old to be eligible for landmark status.

Now post-war development has reached the age of 50, and US mayors and preservationists are questioning what is truly “historic.”

The issue has policy implications. When a building receives historic status, it gains legal protection from demolition and major exterior alterations. It also becomes eligible for federal and state grants and tax credits. These funds can be an important driver of community redevelopment and renewal.

Several cities such as Los Angeles, Chicago and Arlington (Texas) are conducting surveys of buildings constructed in the past 50 years to determine what is worth preserving. The process utilized by the Landmark Society of Western New York is a model of how rigorous surveys are being managed. The Landmark Society is based in Monroe County, New York, one of the fastest-growing counties in the country during the 1960s.

The Landmark Society is working closely with local architects and contractors to identify and catalogue resources from the recent past that are eligible for historic designation and protection. “It’s an objective process,” says Executive Director Joanne Arany. “We follow the guidelines of the US Department of the Interior to identify distinct styles and distinct architects.”

Preservationists want to protect not only homes, but also strip shopping malls, offices, and public buildings from the 1950s. Built in the modernist style, these structures are generally boxy and lack ornamentation and endearing details like columns and arches.

Boston’s City Hall, for example, is perhaps the most controversial building in the city, loved by architects and reviled by the public. Architecture critic Edwin Heathcote calls it “a landmark example of modernism” and advocates saving the building. Boston Mayor Thomas Menino prefers moving municipal offices to another location and selling the site to developers who could raze it.

For many, the modernist era was an unfortunate period in American history. Modernism symbolizes the proclivity to centralized land use planning – called “urban renewal” -- that characterized American politics in the 1950s and 60s. Throughout the 50s and 60s, healthy urban neighborhoods were destroyed and replaced by large modernist buildings. Rather than forming part of the urban fabric, modernist structures stood aloof like individual sculptures.

Middle class residents of urban neighborhoods displaced by these buildings followed federal subsidies to suburban residential subdivisions; poor and minority residents, ineligible for federal mortgages because of their low incomes and the racist policies of the time, were forced into urban slums. The result was the radical polarization of the American landscape into sharp divisions between urban and suburban; black and white; rich and poor.

Some see irony in attempting to save buildings that may represent all that is now considered bad in American urban planning. Newspapers in many US cities routinely run articles about “how wonderful downtown used to be” before the homes and shops were supplanted by highways, oversized buildings, and parking lots. Moreover, preservation battles often assume a populist versus elitist posture.

When former Dallas Mayor Laura Miller proposed demolishing the modernist Stadler Hilton hotel she had strong public support, but backed down in the face of opposition by small but powerful advocacy groups. Ironically, these same groups- arbiters of pedestrian-friendly architectural design and “smart growth” planning - would never allow a building like the Stadler to be built in downtown Dallas today.

Joanne Arany suggests that the irony is misplaced: “Our job as preservationists is to recognize and preserve resources that are currently undervalued.” If an appreciation of the past and a preservation ethic had been stronger 50 years ago, she observes, perhaps the US could have avoided the worst excesses of sprawl and urban renewal.

This conviction, however, does not make the job easier for preservationists in our current era in which modernist buildings often fail to capture the public’s imagination and many remember with nostalgia the landscapes these buildings replaced.

Like Boston’s City Hall and Dallas’ Stadler Hilton, the Cleveland Trust Company in Cleveland, Ohio is popularly considered the “ugliest building in town.” Cleveland Trust was designed by Marcel Breuer according to standards that are now discredited. Local political leaders voted to knock down the vacant 29-story tower for new government offices. But demolition of the monolithic, precast-concrete-clad structure is staunchly opposed by activist groups which otherwise make their livings advocating for human-scale design.

Like many modernist buildings, Cleveland Trust contains asbestos – widely used as insulation in the 1950s and 60s – and thus fuels a related debate. Should scarce historic preservation tax credits and grants be used for environmental remediation, or are these financial incentives more wisely applied to uncontaminated buildings of earlier eras?

The debate will only grow in America. As Richard Moe, president of the National Trust for Historic Preservation, told the Chicago Tribune: “The simple fact, although it’s sometimes hard to grasp, is that modernism is becoming historic. It’s a tough fight, and it’s happening in every part of the country.”
azpreservation
Mad about Modern
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Statewide

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby PixelPixie on Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:27 pm

Great article on the Mayor's site, very accessible and sensitive to all sides of the issues.

The Arizona Republic is working on another major (epic, I'm told) article on Phoenix architecture, it should be out shortly.
User avatar
PixelPixie
Board Moderator
 
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:16 am
Location: Canal North, PHX

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby Na on Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:10 pm

To me it all boils down in a nutshell to a big, big gap in knowledge and understanding between the professionals who seek to provide design services and the business people who set the "budgets". As long as budgets are based on dollars only and no other criteria carries as much weight, we will be having this same diaglog over and over and over like the movie "groundhog day". So, as my professors said, to all of us eager un-embattled design students, "you need to educate your client". They did not mean that in a bad or superior way. They meant it in the spirit of learning and understanding history and that we had a duty to "pass the torch" of arts understanding and knowledge. But, believe me it is a great task and challenge to sway business people and their budgets and try to pass them a torch. They don't want it. They want profits and they want it now. Let the next guy do the "right or creative thing".

William McDougel AIA is right when he talks about changing our planning model back to one that thinks about passing on value for the next and the next and next generation as did our founding fathers. Until the time we take back this view deep into the core of our being where we plan not just for ourselves but, for others that come after us then we will not be able to expand our idea of what should encompass a "construction budget" which in turn supports the engineered and artisic built environment. We have become "small of spirit" and it is not a good thing.
Na
A planned home interior...it's not superficial and it's not just about looks. It's about living a life with zest and care and making a special environment for family and friendship to flourish.
Na
Mad about Modern
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Phoenix, Az

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby Kaffer on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:02 pm

I appreciate the author taking a public controversial stance, however, I find some of its message somewhat unfortunate. Apparently, I do not stand next to the author in the “fight” against sameness, nor am I much of a scoffer. I find that a continuity of construction methods, material pallets, and design methodology is what gives a basis of creating a recognizable community. Rather than building for only expression, ourselves, or for neighbors that we build in order to contribute to an evolving community. The mark of today’s community will resonate in the future based on those contributions that best represent our collective progression.
I do however envy the author’s overabundant exposure to current day modernism, as I have yet to become desensitized.


I just ran across this post from Alison and found it to be quite appropriate to this discussion.:

"Now that the battle for modern architectural design has been won, it is up to us to see that it is a lasting victory. In order to make it so, I feel we should check ourselves with the principles of good architecture as set down in the history of architectural design. Rather than designing buildings that will "knock their eyes out" we should try to do buildings that will be pleasant to their eyes for many years to come.

Since architecture reflects the times in which it is conceived, and the people it serves, let us design our buildings to reflect the kind of people we want history to show us to have been."

-- Ralph Haver, as written in a guest column on "The President's Page" of Arizona Architect, October 1958
A publication of the AIA
User avatar
Kaffer
Core Member
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:36 pm

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby JC on Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:26 am

What a perfect quote Kaffer/ Alison/ Ralph!
Joel Contreras
Urban/ Modern Specialist
Home Smart
480-430-5939
http://www.myspace.com/jcportfolio
User avatar
JC
Is in the place to be
 
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:22 pm
Location: Camelview Village

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby linneaodowd on Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:22 pm

I want to thank all of those who responded to my essay...I am thrilled that there was so much interest in the subject. I am truly fascinated by what Phoenix will become in the next 10-20 years, living here right now is like watching a city be born.

My essay was originally written as a result of watching two local, high profile architects debate...they agreed that the typical suburban stucco home was rubbish but neither could point to any real reasons why we continue to build (and buy!) in this style. My original intent was that we need to start looking beyond the obvious, we all know the current development patterns of sprawl and suburban development are not sustaining us. If we can address the complex social, anthropological, and economic issues involved in why people are choosing "Tuscan" homes, perhaps the next successful suburb will be a modern, ecologically sound, economically viable alternative to the current failing style.

Several books I have enjoyed and relate to the essay are:

Robert Venturi's book "Learning from Las Vegas - The Forgotten Symbols in Architectural Form" Written in the 1972, yet very applicable to Phoenix...accepting our vernacular, learning from it, and moving forward...

Heinrich Hübsch's "In What Style Should We Build?" Published in 1828, is a bit dry but fascinating...written so long ago, yet strangely his debate certainly applies today. Hübsch started an intense debate among architects, historians, and critics. The ensuing controversy created the foundation of Modernism in the last decades of the century...

Take Care,
Linnea
linneaodowd
Brand Spankin' New
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:55 pm

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby Kaffer on Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:26 pm

Again, I would like to applaud you immensely for presenting a controversial view to the public as I personally lack the courage. Regardless of the outcome to your article’s reception, it encourages a dialogue that positively influences our progression.

Now with that said…………I would like to offer an invitation for you to respond further to some of the specific comments made as we don’t always get the opportunity to defend the criticism of our work.

I will respond to this post further as I have a great passion for this topic.
User avatar
Kaffer
Core Member
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:36 pm

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby JC on Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:13 pm

Linnea,
Great article!
I am happy that you used the term "McModern"... First time I have heard it.
There are a lot of cheap Modern projects I have seen sprouted up about town lately.
I am a big fan of the usual suspects (anything merz and studio ma design for example) but nowadays, it is like there are these buzzwords for Real Estate.
I look on Craigslist from time to time and I get so irritated I have to close the site from my browser.
I'll open up a few posts and read "Loft condo" and the only thing that may be considered Lofty about it is the location but the condo will have the typical 8 foot soffited ceilings and dingy carpet.
"Mid Century Modern home" plugged for a typical ranch home in Scottsdale. "Luxury condo" for a condo conversion, the list goes on and on.

...And the new buzzwords for developers are "Modern condos" or Modern Lofts.
Some of these projects look just like your typical infill stucco mess but they have colored the stucco in some crazy colors and a few areas are cladded with corregated metal (and of course non-modern kitchen and baths). C'mon!! Why does everything in Phoenix have to be so watered down and value engineered?
I know that using sophisticated materials can push the prices up on these developments and buyers have a tough time absorbing these extra fees, especially when their only option is to pay $600+ per square foot for a 200+ unit development where your neighbor has the same repeated home. But in terms of character, Phoenix is lagging waaay behind more advanced cities like San Fran, Seattle, Portland, Denver and even San Diego.
It would be so nice to have a healthy market for superior developments, particularly botique projects. Maybe when land prices hit bottom and developers can put out a superior product for $250 psf. It would be nice when a developer was rewarded for thinking more with regard to design than to a profit-model. Our most Urban area in Phoenix would be considered average in one of these aforementioned cities.
Why is Phoenix the City that will always be known for cheap, affordable housing and when will we bust out of that shell?
How many people do we need here before people reject suburban sprawl? 20 million? Imagine driving to San Diego when it takes you 2 and a half hours to get to the 85.

I long for the day to see some quality, infill Modern track homes built but I have the feeling it would still not pass our standards. It would probably be Pulte or KB trying to cash in on the latest express train!
We do have some cool Modern remodels and some very quality new construction homes in Phoenix but you have to dig to find them.
One of these days I hope to see these kinds of homes on main arteries. I'm not only talking about housing either, retail, office and hotels too.
There are a few select areas of town with nice consistency and standard of building, like Biltmore area and Scottsdale and Camelback road.

I am probably a bit down on Phoenix having just planned a Euro trip in the future and having sifted through thousands of pictures on the web from European cities. I just picture someone from Paris or London visiting Phoenix and puking in their mouth's.

So maybe we don't all have to support density in town but we can get on the wagon and support superior design and preservation of our exisiting buildings worthy of saving. Phx needs to start paying attention to other cities and learn the lessons from tearing down our "blighted" older buildings every 20 years.... And architects should design our homes. Not big box developers. Why is it so seldom to use a quality architect?
Joel Contreras
Urban/ Modern Specialist
Home Smart
480-430-5939
http://www.myspace.com/jcportfolio
User avatar
JC
Is in the place to be
 
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:22 pm
Location: Camelview Village

Re: Phoenix: the Danger of Success

Postby Kaffer on Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:14 pm

I would like to share a quote………”Here at Blank Blank Development we find that most people relate and feel the most comfortable in a ‘timeless style’.” ...................................What a beautiful design ambition.........to create a timeless style.

The Scene: As an opportunist, I had an interview with a very predominant “luxury” apartment and condo developer. I was not really interested in working for this company, however, I decided to entertain the option provided by a recruiter. Throughout the interview I heard a lot of “at the end of the day” statements. I love that phrase. It is so definitive, so exact. It is that phrase of all phrases that makes me listen so intently to what comes next:

“Yes yes, yes we would love to accommodate green concepts into the design, but at the end of the day energy savings doesn’t matter; what matters is can I get 6 million units per acre.”

“We have been in this business for 10,000 years and at the end of the day we had to stop reinventing the wheel as there are only 4 possible floor plan configurations for 2 bedroom unit types.”

“Your past experience is wonderful and we love your design enthusiasm, however it is quite worthless because at the end of the day it is perfecting our efficiency that is profitable."

“ Now listen closely because I am going to let you in on a little secret……….at the end of the day .............I control the majority of the residential market because of passionate, competent, progressive architects.............please............please stop crying...........damn it everytime!”

………………more to come.
Last edited by Kaffer on Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Kaffer
Core Member
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:36 pm

Next

Return to Modernism in Phoenix

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


ABOUT

NEIGHBORHOODS

ARTICLES

ARCHITECTS

MAP

FORUMS

TOURS

LINKS

SEARCH

FAQ

ADS

HOME